I'm a mother seeking advice. I recently had a confrentation with a woman at church about my toddler son.?

On Sunday I had a confrentation with a Sister in my ward (she is in the PRimary Presidency). She was inappropriately disapling my four year old son who had been pulled out of his Sunday school class. They were in the hallway and she was holding his face by the chin with her hand while speaking to him. I saw this because I had walked into the hallway several doors down with another Primary child (the boy that I brought in the hall didn't want to stay in his seat, but very quickly calmed down when I brought him in the hallway -- we were out there just long enough for me to ask him if he could sit nicely in class and for him to respond yes) from the class that my husband and I teach. I immediately made a mental note that I needed to speak with this Sister after the meeting block (that way we could both give each other our full attention and discuss the situation) unless of coarse she came to get me or my husband.I'm a mother seeking advice. I recently had a confrentation with a woman at church about my toddler son.?
She probably should not have put her hands on your child.





That being said: Your child needs to be disciplined by a responsible adult and taught how to behave....obviously ';someone'; has not taught him to act properly and treat other people with respect and courtesy.








If some little brat hit and kicked MY child....their parent would suffer my wrath and my hands would be all over them, instead.





Since you don't make your child behave, I guess she had to. I don't agree with her tactics, but sounds to me like he isn't very socially acceptable. You reap what you sow...to coin a phrase. She didn't kick or hit him, did she?





Too bad the only way she could get him to pay attention was by holding his face so he would look at her and at least appear to listen.....sounds to me like HE is the one out of control.








If you don't get control of this violent child IMMEDIATELY, I guarantee he is going to hit or kick the wrong kid and get his teeth kicked in. And he will also probably end up in juvenile hall!





Shame on you! Do your job, Mom. That way, other people will not have to do it for you, like she did.





Now go and apologize to her and ask her how to control your own child properly.I'm a mother seeking advice. I recently had a confrentation with a woman at church about my toddler son.?
Thank GAWD saner head prvialed! I am sure you won't change your ways and try to be a decent mother...but I was sure the US would grow some brains and vote for Kerry in 2004!





Get contol of your child.

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Confrontation %26amp; disciplining, is that what you meant?





Speak with her. That's all the advice I have. If you don't like the way she was treating your child, then do something about it. Very cut %26amp; dry.





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Whoa! What a novel. I didn't read past the first paragraph. I can't see anyone being interested enough to take the time to read this story. hahahah
I don't care if it was Mother Theresa...I'd have a real hard time with anyone laying hands on my child...





What are your school's policies regarding discipline...was she ';breaking the rules'; or did she just set off your maternal alarm? In this day and age...I'd say it was a safe bet that the policy manual says to keep your hands to yourself...but I'd double check...





I'd flat out say that corporal punishment is a task better left to the parents...and remind her of just what the policy on disciplining students is and ask her if she could please keep them in mind the next time she succumbs to frustration whilst disciplining your child.





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It's ridiculous that they cornered you like that...and then tag teamed you like that and all in front of your children. I dont think I would have stood there. I think I would have talked right past her and taken my kids to my husband and then gone to address her somewhere more appropriate.





In anycase, it sounds like the sisters and the bishop and everyone is just going to disregard your concerns. At this point it's probably pointless to ';make arrangements'; for another meeting...Is there any other class your son can go to? If not, I think i might just flat out say to her...Or maybe leaving her a note would be easier....





';I didn't appreciate being cornered last week. I didn't feel as though you were hearing my words or truly understanding the concept of IMMEDIATLEY alerting the parents but that's besides the point and on that we can agree to disagree. However, I would appreciate that in the future, and diciplinary dealings with my son remain verbal and not physical. And if it escalates to the point that you have to grab his little chin and yell into his face again...walk him to my class room and I will deal with him.';





That's all I can think of...outside of slapping her mouth off her face. Sorry but they treated you and your family very poorly....and I think it needs to be addressed, respectfully, but firmly.
Big deal. Some people do that with kids. They are not that fragile.





Well, after reading your whole story, I'll give you my two cents. Don't take it to heart as this is just an opinion of an outsider.





I think you over reacted. Basically you saw someone holding your son's chin (probably because he wouldn't look at her) which is common in some families. Not pinching his chin, slapping or spanking him, but giving him a good talking to. Then you saw him crying. You saw the sister make your son cry and did it in a way you would never do.





But what was really happening here?





You child was hitting and kicking other children.





I would be very upset with YOU if your child was hitting and kicking mine and you simply took him out in the hall and talked to him quietly.





You see, your child hurt other children. She didn't hurt him. I think you need to get a handle on your own child at this age and tell him that behavior is not appropriate. The fact is, if your child behaved, none of this would have happened.





While you may have been a sensitive child growing up and one look from your parents might have caused you to behave, that doesn't mean you child is going to have the same sensitivity. I've seen too many kids that are out of control and their parents take up for them only to enforce the child's behavior that he can do no wrong. Maybe you are far from being that parent but I think it can easily slip by when you take issue with how someone else deals with your disruptive child that is hurting other children. Especially when she didn't hurt him other than a scolding.





I think the Bishop was right. You could have simply said, ';Next time, when me or my husband is around and my child is hurting other children, bring him to me.'; And let it go at that. But you made your point to her and the others involved. But they are not going to let your child continue to hurt other children, because there are a lot more parents that are going to be in their face if they allow that to happen.





I will tell you for one, I'm a little more aggressive than most, but I would be in your face telling you and your husband directly that was going to be the last time your child kick or hits my child and I will hold you completely responsible and not the teachers. I think a lot of it depends on what kind of church you attend, but there are no secrets at the church that I go to... no whispering. If Johnny's a bad kid, it is talked about and in front of the parent. We don't want them there if they are not going to control their kids.





I think you know what the REAL problem is... the class was out of control. That was a teacher's problem. I'm sure your child stood out amongst all the other children unless this Sister had it in for you or your child. The fact that she was holding his chin tells me that he wasn't listening to her. I would think that far before I would think an adult is out of control and just waiting for a five year old to start hitting and kicking other children.





I think you over reacted.
you really need to remember why you are at church and what kind of behaviors are appropriate. you left your child in someone else's care and then decided that it wasn't right. never act disrespectfully towards another adult in front of your child as he will model this behavior. in the future, observe the interaction and when it's done, take the adult aside and discuss what you saw. send an apology to the teacher and pastor.
let me get this striaght.





a) your child hit another becauae the other was being ';mean';





b) the teacher (person in authority) took your child into the hall, was not able to get him to pay attention and gently held his chin in one hand to get him to pay attention and at leat appeat to listen and left absolutely no mark or bruise on him and the only thing hurt was his ego





c) the teacher wanted to speak with you inthe hall without you holding him and coddling him and stepped between you





d) you think the situation was important enough to gripe about it here but not important enough to wait a few moments while she politely finiashed the conversation she was having with someone before you got there





e) she went to the president because she has a child in her class who hits other children and she felt like he should be made aware becasue someone has made an example to him that hitting is acceptable when people hurt their feelings





f) you are too chicken to act like an adult and talk to the people involved in person, you would rather send a letter so they don't have the benefit of answering you immediately and face to face





g) now you are here b*tching about it to people who will never have the benefit of seeing your child in ';action'; or of knowing the other people's side of the story





h) you expect that every time your kid is out of control (and i trust with no real consequences given for his actions, this will be the first time of many) for her to have to leave and come find you, thereby disrupting class even more, after what your child does








great, now i have to know that my tax money will be paying to clothe and feed an inmate charged with assault in about 16 years.





that's rich.





be an adult and set the proper example for your child. you need to apologize to everyone involved, including the child and the parents of the child who were assaulted by your child (and in the eyes of the law that is what it is: assault...even if the other child was ';mean'; it is never, ever ok to hit unless you are being hit first) and then you should humbly ask the sister for forgiveness....not only for not making your son apologize immediatley to her, the other child and the whole class for his behavior, but also for coming to a forum where she is not represented and talking about her behind her back.








i fear for the future because there are so many parents out there like you. i really do
There is nothing wrong with holding a young boys chin while you speak to him. Boys process information differently than girls, and when you are trying to communicate with them, getting as many senses as possible involved helps. Holding the chin, gently, so the boy has to look at you gets both the sense of touch and the sense of sight involved on top of just the sense of hearing. This isn't a form of discipline, just a form of communication. I honestly stopped reading about halfway through, but I don't really see that the Sister did anything wrong.
Be very, very glad that it wasn't my child your little brat hit. YOU would be in the hospital. And if I were the teacher I would never allow that horrid little beast in my class again. You both got off lightly! She didn't hurt him at all, she was getting his attention as a person of authority. He used his hands to hurt another child! Where did he learn that was OK, huh? Certainly not from that teacher.








That woman should get an award as ';Teacher Of The Year'; and a huge cash payout for having to deal with your brat and you as well.








If I were you and I was such an awful parent that my kid was shown it was OK to hit and expect absolutely no consequences, I would be too ashamed to ever show my pathetic face in public again...let alone church!
I am assuming that most (not all) of the people who said the teacher was out of line did not bother to read your little novel and didn't get too far past the whole ';holding his chin in her hand'; part. because if they had, they would have said this:








you were totally and completely out of line. your child HIT another child. she did not hurt him by holding his chin in her hand to get his attention (and I will bet my bottom dollar that she tried to get him to pay attention many other ways before having to do that) but the poor child he chose to hit instead of using his words was sure hurt!





grow up, grow a spine and take some parenting classes.





you and your child need to apologize to everyone involved...and face to face...not via some chicksh*t letter





if I had behaved that way when I was in school or Sunday school, I would have gotten the belt from the teacher and then a serious punishment. your little angel got far less than he deserved. did you take him out to ice cream after wards to make his poor little feelings all better?








what is wrong with parents today...and people wonder why the prisons are so full.








both the behavior of your child and yourself was nothing short of shameful and you both should hang your heads in shame.
I'm glad that you and your child do not belong to any organization that I belong to.





He sounds like a holy terror and you sound like the reason he behaves like that.








Whine, whine, whine.








Enough said.
You sound like one of those parents (who) when their kid does something wrong in school and gets in trouble or gets suspended, they whine and complain and even sue the school.





That is not a compliment.





Instead of complaining about how she handled the situation, why don't you raise your kid not to act in a way that necessitates your kid being disciplined in the first place?





Geez!





When my kids do something wrong and get in trouble, it is MY fault...not the person who got stuck doing the job of discipline (i.e. ';my job';).








You need to teach that lovely offspring of yours that ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!!!!!!! Life will be rough for them if they don't get that simple fact of life and he will never have any decent friends....only other little hellions.





If you had been on the ball in your parenting, this situation would never have happened.





And now you're teaching him to p*ss and moan when he gets in trouble. I agree with the person above me....he is going to hit and kick the wrong person and have his bottom handed to him on a platter someday if you don't teach him what IS and what IS NOT acceptable behaviour.





You may be 26, but you're acting like you're 10....and everyone knows that ANY 10 year old would make an awful parent.





I'm going to star this question because I know that my contacts and their contacts and so on(who are intelligent, THINKING people...most of them parents) will most likely agree.








Your child WAS NOT hurt (unlike the ones who were kicked and hit by yours) and was crying and upset because someone FINALLY called him on his BS. That Sister should get a medal and you should be sent to the corner.
Your son was hitting and kicking other kids in class. She took him outside into the hallway and held his chin so that he would have to make eye contact with her whilst she spoke to him. I see nothing wrong with that. You have completely over-reacted and made the situation a lot worse than it needed to be. If my kids had been in the class with your son hitting and kicking them, I'd have been furious. She did the right thing, and you came over all motherly and protective, which is understandable, but kids need to know the boundaries. He needs to know that his bad behaviour in class will not be tolerated.
yes i do agree, that is never right to abuse/touch in any way a child.. and you should say something, but depending on the age, the sister may have been taught this way... when she was in school (if shes older) thats what teachers and parents did. which is hard for people in modern days to understand.. but i do think you should confront her.
You never really asked a question there, but I would kindly ask her be more gentle when dealing with the children. However, my mother used to do that to me and it really gets the kid's attention and means the adult is serious.
she should of come to you and spoke to you about him misbehaving and let you do the disaplining. she has no right doing it. Sister or not a sister
Oh, wow!





Thats completely out of line! I'd take action to make sure it doesn't happen again to anyone else.
A simple ';hands off the kids, Sister'; should drive the point home.
I would talk with the Primary President about it first. I would ask her what is expected of the children and also what is the discipline plan for the children in case of interruption.





I would say that if my son was disruptive in his ctr5 class, that I would like to be notified to take care of the matter myself.





Good luck. Remember that everyone messes up sometimes and that forgiveness is best in these situations. Don't hate her, that will just wear on you.





Also, mention to the teacher that if there is a problem again, just to have you come and sit in on the class for a few minutes.





My husband walks by my son's class now and again just to listen to make sure that he is behaving and that all is well. Don't hesitate to do the same....with a nice smile, of course.





:-)





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Wow. Isn't it nice to be able to vent in here w/o people knowing? :-)





Anyways. Really, don't worry about missing next week. It doesn't matter what other people might think. I would tell the President or the Secretary who will be subbing your class, though, so they are prepared for that.





One suggestion is that if the sunbeam class is out of control, then they need either two teachers, or a bigger room. I would talk with the Pres or the Bishop about that. It would be a welcome suggestion.





Good Luck. These things do happen, but please try to come up with a good solution together with them and then let it go.
i would be pissed, i would not be nice at all i would say you have no right to hold my childs face up to your and make him look at you while you are yelling at him, they dont have a right to do that to anyone, if the child just wont listen , she should not touch any child, she should have had a talk with the parent about what they would like to have done maybe a time out maybe him changed to another class, i love the lord too but i love my children also and i would not have anyone doing that to my son, my son has ad/hd and he is a hand full, so there are sometimes when i go out he is running about throwing stuff yelling, and jumping, and sometimes people will tell him no if he does something bad which doesnot not bother me but if anyone touchs my son iam touching them i understand your situation your in a church i think you should have a meeting about what punishment is correct for children and let parent know what will happen to there child if they act out so there are no mad parents
It sounds like the whole thing was blown out of proportion. When you are feeling calmer, you should have a talk, or, if you really do feel too intimidated, you can always write a letter. Speak to this sister and just explain that you were feeling a little defensive because you were not able to get the whole story right then and felt you were being ganged up on. Let her know for future reference how you prefer situations with your son be handled. It does not sound so much like she was doing anything particularly bad from what you describe, but just that maybe you viewed it as being very intimidating for your child. In the future, do not be afraid to say that you are upset right now and would like to discuss the situation when you are feeling calmer. You are much less likely to sound like a hysterical mother and much more likely to be taken seriously if you wait to talk about things when you are not feeling overly emotional. Go ahead and write the letter about needing a substitute for the weekend your husband is going away. They already knew about it beforehand. Please don't be afraid to talk to these people. You see them every week, and you don't want things to end up being awkward and uncomfortable. You need to keep the lines of communication open. God wants a relationship with us, and he wants his children to have a good relationship with each other. If there is no communication, the relationship will deteriorate.





I'm not sure what's wrong with advising someone to wait until they're calm and thinking clearly before discussing things. Personally, I think it's best to be able to approach a situation with a clear head, so you can be patient and hear the whole story before deciding whether or not there is truly a problem or just a misunderstanding. That is the basic message I am giving here.
Well I think that the whole thing was taken way too far by the counselor and primary president. However simply holding a child's chin in your hand isn't bad. As a primary teacher I've done it with kids in my sunbeam class. I don't do it roughly and I do it so they'll look at me and not get distracted. I get down at their level to do it. I tell them nicely that I was disappointed in their behaviour and I will give them one more chance to come back to class. If that doesn't work then the second time I will take the child to their parent. I very rarely have to take them to their parent. Just knowing I am disappointed in a behaviour helps them settle down for the rest of class. The parents have seen me handle it this way and none of have complained. Only once did a child burst into tears. But he was having a really off day to begin with. I knew then that he didn't need a second chance...he just needed a parent. I think I was in a unique position though....I had just spent a year in nursery with my class, got released and then called to sunbeams. So the kids and parents and I knew each styles really well and I wasn't doing anything different than the parents themselves did. Shoot I was more gentle with the chin holding than one of the moms with her daughter.





I think what gets me in your situation is how it was handled over all. That she tried to come between you and your son, that it felt like you were cornered, that the teacher said all the kids in the class were a bit wild that day and not just your son, that words were said to the bishop before hand so that it made you look bad in his eyes. None of that should have happened at all. And the attitude those sisters were taking is just wrong. I have never seen a primary teacher or leader discipline a child in our ward and we have some children with special needs that tend to get a bit wild at times. Yes they are pulled out and gently talked to and given another chance to sit through class. But never disciplined. They are brought to the parents for that. (I know cause my older daughter is one of the wild ones...sigh)





I'm one to get really defensive when it comes to my kids. So this situation would be hard on me. I think I'd take some time to let it simmer down. Then I'd set an appointment with the bishop when he's less hurried and calmly let him know how hurt and even a bit angry if that's the case by the whole situation that happened and let him know that you are really struggling with it all and go from there.





Hopefully in the mean time, they've calmed down as well and the bishop has had time to think it all over and when you do go in that he'll really listen this time.